Phil Harrison Says Launch PS3 Games Already Filling 25GB >
2006/10/17 13:19:30: Posted by DM
Phil Harrison, Sony Worldwide Studios Boss, claims that the launch PS3 games are already "getting up close" to the 25GB Blu-Ray limit. Of course, how much of this is used on textures and media, he does not say, but next year he promises to reach the 50GB mark.

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Written by Walkin (96) on 2006/10/17

I bet that is due to the 1080p graphics, and not that games are that long.
Written by steve_o_3000 (121) on 2006/10/17

That, or not using as much compression as they normally would.
Written by Odins_wrath (153) on 2006/10/17

Horay! more cut scenes for all! lol.. T_T..
Written by nixon (197) on 2006/10/17

you both are right,

it is due to 1080p graphics and not enough compression.

And no ! they wouldn't use too much cut scenes, since its already too much work , for a game alone.
Written by go go (62) on 2006/10/17

Anyone know what time XBL will be back online for USA Eastern time zone.
Written by whYte420 (99) on 2006/10/17

Wow that's a lot of data for a shitty game.
Written by steve_o_3000 (121) on 2006/10/17

which one?
Written by the mad barber (44) on 2006/10/17

my mom always told me that if i dont have anything nice to say then dont say anything so after reading this article i think im going to take her advise and keep it moving but before i go i just want everyone to know that im proud to be an xbox360 owner :)
Written by mlock2k on 2006/10/17

all of them
Written by Nemesis IX (264) on 2006/10/17

its meant to be cos of the compression, most big games uncompressed would end up around 17.5 gb's and then it compressed to an average of 4 gb's plus cut-scenes. i heard there is a 700+mb cut-scene in the game Warhawk.
Written by Yakuza on 2006/10/17

what i find funny is that hes promising to will fill blu-ray discs to 50gib by next year and whats he gonna do the year after that?

rofl sony is so full of shit.

They keep trying to justify blu-ray, notice how they didint do that last generation.
Written by Fruity Loops ZX (178) on 2006/10/17

1. You can never have enough space. (Thats why people graft terabyte raids onto their Tivos..lol).

2. Never, ever, say something has too much space. It will eventually come back to bite. This has always proven to be true. Sure, its fun to bash now, but, ...

3. Rumour has it that Gears of War is 7+ gigs

4. Most likely, FMV heavy games like MGS4 and FFXIII will reach 50gb. Fans of those type of gmaes should be excited to see the FMVs in 1080i/p.
Written by maddcoder on 2006/10/17

There's not one PS3 launch title i can see that could fill up 25 gigs. NONE! If it does, then the developers should learn how to compress the textures better!

dammit Phil & Ken you guys are full of [email protected]!

i'll still get a PS3 though, just because i'm a gamer. (No Wii for mii)
Written by blah on 2006/10/17

Don't see whats negative about all of this. I say its cool that Sony is boasting Blu-Ray as a new game storage format or whatever. That way in the future when DVDs are possibly as popular as today's CDs then we'd always have Blu-Ray/HD-DVD to count on. I don't see anything in that that "is full of shit."
Written by Sky (325) on 2006/10/17

last gen games first launched on cd roms.. about 18th months later DVD roms became the gaming standard... im not saying DVD 9 will be obsolte in 18 months for videogames but.. it WILL be a future bottleneck on the 360's part..
Written by blah is stupid (1) on 2006/10/17

um...ever heard of internet distribution, there wont be removible roms after this generation.
Written by Kenny K on 2006/10/17

this is simple, they are using the space because they can, not because they have to. big difference
Written by Yakuza on 2006/10/17

lol. Think about this. Microsoft didint make a console that would be obsolete due to space issues they are rich for a reason , while i could be wrong im sure that the xbox360 can last just as long as the playstation 3.
Written by Smarty Pants (245) on 2006/10/17

Well if Gears is 7 gb (compressed) and all of its assets are designed for 720p .. how much space would a 1080p spec Gears take up?

Probably more than 7 gb, lets say 11 gb. Now add uncompressed audio, 1080p video, etc ..along with all the localised versions and it may be pushing 15+ gb. I mention this because this is what Resistance is going to be and its pushing 20+ gb.
Written by Kenny K (4) on 2006/10/17

has it been confirmed that GoW is 7GB?? i would like to see a link if so
Written by Unbiased Technology Professor on 2006/10/17

Listen, I was a game designer for years. I know how this sort of stuff works. The only reason why Sony's Phil Harrison says that games are close to 25GB is because he is either telling lies or because Sony is using a strategy where there is literally no compression used.

Here is an example to show that what Sony is saying does not add up. We know that Resistance: FOM supposedly uses over 20GB of data, even though the developers have made it clear that the games runs at a resolution of 720p at 30 frames-per-second with 5.1 audio. Every single factor mentioned by Phil Harrison as a potential factor that could lead to a Blu-ray disc being filled up was covered with the developers of Resistance: FOM were interviewed by the IPM. Obviously, a first-person shooter like Resistance: FOM does NOT use up that much data when it doesn’t take advantage of ANY of the factors mentioned by Sony’s Phil Harrison.

Here is something else that Phil Harrison was doing: He was simply using marketing tactics. When Sony promotes Blu-ray discs, they talk about dual-layer 50GB Blu-ray discs. The problem with this is that Sony has had a very difficult time figuring out a way to mass produce dual-layer Blu-ray discs. The Defect Ratio of dual-layer discs is tremendously high, just like with Sony’s laptop batter problem where 8 million batteries have been recalled!

We will not see dual-layer Blu-ray discs for quite a while, and when we do, they will be priced significantly higher than the single-layer 25GB discs currently used. If Sony really is stupid enough to avoid using compression, just to say they are filling up dual-layer Blu-ray discs with a game like Final Fantasy, then that is probably the reason why so many industry analysts have said that PS3 games will end up costing up to $89.

Somebody at Sony should also tell Phil Harrison that there is not a single Blu-ray movie that has taken advantage of 7.1 sound. In fact, Blu-ray movies do not even have a requirement for 5.1 sound to be placed on the disc! HD-DVD movies have a mandatory requirement for sound to be output in at least 5.1, and up to 7.1. Blu-rays are like standard DVDs, which makes sense because they both use MPEG-2 video technology. HD-DVD uses the much more advanced VC-1 video display compression technology, which I have heard people accurately point out that Sony could use, but they refuse to, just because they don’t want to pay royalties to Microsoft and Intel.

There is an excellent chance that Playstation 3 games will end up not even using true 5.1 sound, let alone true 7.1 sound. Playstation 3 games could end up using Pro Logic 2 simulated 5.1 sound, just like the Wii, whereas the Xbox and Xbox 360 use true 5.1 sound. Also, if you have a 7.1 audio/video receive from Denon or Onkyo, the 5.1 sound output from the Xbox 360 will be converted to an excellent 7.1 sound mode.

The staff at the college I work at was talking about how one of the compression technologies used by Microsoft allows game data to be compressed in an 8:1 ratio compared to what Sony is deliberately NOT doing with the Blu-ray games. Sony deliberately avoids using compression for the useful marketing purposes, and possibly because there simply may be no need for compression. However, the compression technologies used today are so advanced that absolutely no quality is lost when using the compression.

Think about this: Elder Scrolls 4 was the biggest Xbox 360 game up to this point, and it didn't even fill up one side of a dual-layer DVD. The Xbox 360 fall update will cause all Xbox 360 games programmed to output resolutions of 720p and/or 1080i to be upconverted to 1080p in a custom way that is optimized for the Xbox 360. This is something that the Playstation 3 cannot do.

The fall update for the Xbox 360 will let the Xbox 360 version of the game run at up to 1080p in a customized way that works awesome with HDTVs that are capable of displaying 1080p resolution. Like I said, this is something the Xbox 360 can do thanks to the fall update, but the Playstation 3 will not be able to do.

The only way you would be able to see the Playstation 3 version in 1080p resolution would be if the game was actually designed to output 1080p resolution (which it isn’t), or if you had a DLP HDTV that upconverts the signal to 1080p. Most DLP HDTV’s capable of displaying 1080p resolution have new upconversion circuitry that converts 720p and 1080i signals to 1080p resolution. LCD and Plasma HDTVs almost never possess upconversion circuitry like that. If you own an LCD HDTV or a Plasma HDTV that is only capable of displaying a 1080p signal when the actual signal is 1080p, it means the only way you will see Elder Scrolls 4 in 1080p is to use the Xbox 360!

Unbiased analysis says: Advantage Xbox 360

Another factor to consider is that we need to remember that Phil Harrison has a terrible reputation for being someone who tells BIG lies. As many of the major websites say, Sony has a reputation for over-promising and under-delivering...and the people who make those false claims are employees like Phil Harrison, Kaz Hirai, and Ken Kutaragi. The overall reputation of person’s past is something that has to be considered, even when making an unbiased analysis. I just wanted to point this out.

Advantage: Xbox 360
Written by Big O (49) on 2006/10/17

Got Damn, thats alot of typing!
Written by Jagosix (67) on 2006/10/17

Hello Fellow Gamers. WOW!! 25GB for basically the same X360 games.. Hmmm... that sucks. Even @ that size, the graphic quality is still no better than X360. Remember there are trade offs on resolution vs textures. Somethings gotta give.

That being said, I think sony's doing this because of the Hacking that will take place when this puppy is released.
Written by Unbiased Technology Professor on 2006/10/17

Response to Big O:

I have been typing for years and years. I am pretty darn fast at it! ;)
Written by Smarty Pants (245) on 2006/10/17

to professor:

- Resistance is 1080p 30 fps

- Click! is a commercial BD dual layer movie its out; next is Blackhawk Down; dual layer BD is coming faster than you know

- your pricing is just spectulation

- Resistance is 5.1 .. so are many others; why do you make shit up?

- Elders Scrolls is a bunch fields, fields, caves, and more fields (with some city structures thrown in); Once you start building 1080p-spec complex structures, cities, people, etc..you cant use procedural synthesis; ie. someone needs to model them and they take up space even when compressed

- many PS3 games are confirmed at 1080p ..dont know where youre coming from

Smarty Pants Analysis: The Professor works for MS
Written by Unknown (119) on 2006/10/18

Didn't Itagaki said he couldn't add more shit into DOA Exteme 2 due to Disc space (IGN insider interview) ? Guess bigger storage is needed, wonder what kind of stuff will be added.

Once again this has nothing to do with gaming casually..i mean will this have any effect on you fucks? no

BTW Confirmed that Ps3 uses the same output as ps2 so i can use my cheap ass 12 dollar component cables on it, so yeah the professor works for MS or is just a dumbass and doesn't know what he meant

BTW aren't you the same shithead that said 1080p doesn't matter because its upscale yet you said that the 360 will beable to display "awesome" graphics with that shit even though its upscale and worse its coming from VGA (not digital) and thats a big joke with videophilles, as well as Many HDTVS that would support it (So far XBR/Bravia does, surprised Samsung's doesn't)

Also its noted in forums that component looks better than VGA, and even with that 1080p component is another blah.

Also a note about Blu ray movies, from reading a bunch of avs and digital forums, seems 7.1 is no issue just like how VC-1 MPEG4 is showing now up par with HD-DVD, the thing is, its up to the movie companies themselves on authoring it, HD-DVD and Blu ray movies are still shit at this period just like first generation DVD, figured because its all digital its all possible isn't it?

As a "true" game designer, you should also know that anything with compression ratio be that with is kind of like going through airport security, now if you do not know about that pun (Graphics Artists knows alot about this with Nintendo 64) , then you are no game designer.

Basically saying that no compression isn't a bad thing, there is a 2 sides to ever step there is , as long as it fits in memory and has no cpu power dragging down bullshit aka slower framerate :>

But its nothing that good coding could fix

BTW does Warner Brothers have to pay MS royalities to use VC-1 on their blu ray movies they recentely released?
Written by Yakuza on 2006/10/18

Smarty Pants why cant you use procedural synthesis to generate textures you make no sense
Written by Unbiased Technology Professor Woops!. (1) on 2006/10/18

The foolishness doesn't know that the publisher decides either is still what you use to encode. And, examine the MPEG-4 AVC High-profile(H.264 High-profile) encoder that Panasonic Hollywood laboratory (PHL) developed, and it is scheduled to be adopted for Blu-ray in the future. The encoder of PHL is being written that it is a high film grain and a high-resolution from VC-1 and MPEG-4 AVC of Toshiba in the article on ITmedia of Japan. ttp://plusd.itmedia.co.jp/lifestyle/articles/0609/01/news111.html


Blu-ray is 81%(BUENA VISTA,Sony Pictures,MGM,20th CENTURY FOX,Warner Bros,Paramount Pictures,Lionsgate), and 49.1% is Blu-ray only. (BUENA VISTA,Sony Pictures,MGM,20th CENTURY FOX,Lionsgate)

HD DVD is 44.2%(Warner Bros,Paramount Pictures,Universal Pictures), and 12.3% is HD DVD only. (Universal Pictures)

Written by GP (15) on 2006/10/18

What I'm worried about is how much loading time will there be for 25-50GB PS3 games... The good thing is that the files will probably not be compressed so the CPU won't have to take time decompressing.

Loading times are already a little slow on the 360 considering there are usually under 5GB and there is more than enough CPU power to decompress quickly.

I think that the 25-50GB will be mostly used for extras, not the games itself. At least not yet.
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