Valve CEO Calls PS3 A 'Total Disaster' - Likes Wii >

	2007/01/14 11:52:28: Posted by DM
	Gabe Newell, the co-founder and managing director of Valve, revealed his distaste for the PS3 in the latest issue of Game Informer magazine. He also reveals his love for the Wii. “The PS3 is a total disaster on so many levels, I think It’s really clear that Sony lost track of what customers and what developers wanted. I’d say, even at this late date, they should just cancel it and do a “do over”. Just say, “This was a horrible disaster and we’re sorry and we’re going to stop selling this and stop trying to convince people to develop for it”. The happy story is the Wii. I’m betting that by Christmas of next year, the Wii has a larger installed base than the 360. Other people think I’m crazy. I really like everthing that Nintendo is doing. “ >Link
	Labeled With  valve playstation 3 wii Comments [26]  | Rate this article: -- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10  | Avg. rating of 7.4

Said this while he was eating a chocolate eclair and a twinkie.

The PS3 is not having the same sucess as the ps2 , but is not a "total disaster".

The ps3 great games are about to come and the console sold around 1 million units which is not bad at all when he considerate sony's problem in the manufacturing and shipment area.

The Ps3 will give a big fight to microsoft untill this war is over , i belive that he sale numbers will not be too distant like people are spreading on the internet.

Talking about games: the xbox360 has an edge of the ps3 in terms of hardware raw power which still easier to develop that the ps3 , and this is were the games came in. I personaly dont see the "diference" that were notable on the xbox vs ps2 , the games are very similar in every aspect....but the must be said and the xbox360 have that (you can call it litlle if u want) edge against the ps3 / speacily in HDR and lighting efects.



Also valve is talking about do not delevering what costumers want , is rather bisead since the ps3 is one of the most complete console evers in functionality , even if those are rather simple and cheap , they still very functional for the averange consumer.

This remenber me , if the blu ray realy turn into the mainstream format to movies , sony will celebrate a good desicion of including it, and no doubt with will help the ps3 selling more to try to catch up the xbox360 and wii in sales.

Thats why im laughing at valve and their "histeric" coments about the ps3. Is not a bad console , but with could be better if Sony arrogance and Lie&lie departement had stop with the tradition for a bit and spended their time listening and work over of what the consumers and game industry said.

Q)I’m betting that by Christmas of next year, the Wii has a larger installed base than the 360. I have a Wii and i honestly think it's going to fail. The graphics are very last gen and thats being nice, The Wii remote is cool but you just end up getting sick of it after a few days. The Wii is made for kids and there's nothing wrong with that but the market is alot more than just kids now. I bet by next Christmas the 360 will have the largest install base, and by then Ps3 will have some good games out and follow in close second. I hate to say it but i see the Wii ending up just like the Gamecube. I hope i'm wrong but that's the feeling i get right now.

Half Life 2 is great and all, but it sounds like bitter PC developer tears. They just can't seem to be able to wrap their head around CELL . I don't hear the final fantasy team, Kojima's team, Insomniac, or Naughty Dog bitching about the PS3's architecture.

Usualy talented developers dont waste time bitching about any architecture , they rather use it to learn how to use it right.

However when it comes to EA &company limited(read weak multi platform publishers) they simply have to do it.

They cant stand to the chalenge of a totaly diferent architecture that sometimes worth the time for that extra hard learing curve.

The xbox 360 and the PS3 are capable of similar results , talented developers like kojima dont care about the so called "ps3 hard game development architecture" ,and once those Ea's &co start diging deep into the cell , they will stop bitching.

The ps2 was a hard console to develop for(in the begining) but once developers started discovery how to extract the true power of it ,it became easiest.

Dont take valves negative coments about the ps3 seriously , the same companys talking that about the ps2 were the same to release tons of games for it.

P.s - Valves coments about sony are unfair.Period.

PC developers whined about the Ps2 , especially about the video ram which is not an issue at all once you get into it, others say even Resident Evil Dreamcast won't look as good on ps2, but blah.

Yeah, Sony ddin't really made it developer friendly, and we won't be seeing anything good for the years to come.

AS for Wii, Wii larger install based. hmm

BTW where's unbiased technology ratboy, i could use some cheering up hearing his rantless 10 paragraph of bullshit and whatever to define gamers even though its never the same like before, but i guess that Wii will own 360 comment turned him off :(

BTW where's unbiased technology ratboy, i could use some cheering up hearing his rantless 10 paragraph of bullshit and whatever to define gamers even though its never the same like before, but i guess that Wii will own 360 comment turned him off :(

hahaha come on out ratboy

i wont say 10 paragraphs of bullshit, but you guys need to keep in mind that PC developers are just as capable, if not more, then console developers to adjust to different architectures like the Cell. PC developers are used to writing code and optimizing for different types of hardware which is actually ideal for the Cell since it runs two different CPU instruction sets.

besides developers have been speaking like this from the beginning, only further showing that the Cell is not meant for game development. the only ones that have not spoken up so far are those developing titles exclusively for the ps3 where in those terms their lips are seeled or they risk ruining their standing with the hardware vendors.

by looking at the remarks on this topic, i think its safe to assume that you guys dont know why sony is using the Cell in the ps3, even though its not geared towards gaming.

Well PC developer might be able to adjust to different "PC" architectures. But I've been more fascinated by what console developers have been able to achieve on the limited space of a console. By the looks of things Japanese developers are the only ones willing to step up to the challenge with minimal bitching.

really? well the "bitching" is relative to what console you are talking about.

also seeing as how some of the best looking games in the last generation came from either USA or europe, i would have to disagree with your comment towards "only" japanese developers stepping up to the challenge.

i too am FAR more interested in how console developers are able to push and go beyond the limits of what these consoles are supposed to be capable of. i think its great that the power in consoles are put to good use, instead of being wasted like they are on many PC titles. i also find it really fascinating on how developers are able to do things on consoles that were once thought impossible

Its all about alliances. Developers can develop for the PS3. Its being done as we speak. You really don't hear to much from the Japeanese developers, or atleast I haven't. I think that his team is to stupid to develop for the tech. advanced PS3.It is not a traditional console very different and new. Most every game I've seen for PS3 looks pretty damn good. This is another case of the Lazy American not wanting to put his best foot forward. What a Shame.

however none of that changes the fact that the Cell was designed for game development.

also please keep in mind that ALL game code is written in C++, it is the compilers used that is different between platforms. so with each platform, developers have to optimize and manage their base code to better handle the abilities, features, and bottlenecks of each system

p.s. This guy is wrong period. he sounds like one of the worst fanboys I've ever witness.

Mr. New York, you have it all wrong. no one is saying that developers cant develop for the ps3, we all know its being done. however your missing the point that it is a poorly designed console.

also the "advanced tech" of the ps3 is not so advanced. CPUs like the Cell have been released before and vector based processors have been around for a long time as well. the "tech" is nothing new really, its not equipped to handle game design efficiently.

who are you to say he's "wrong" MR. new york? are you a developer? have you worked on the dev kits like him?

also i have been told personally some not so nice things about the ps3 from a japanese developer. i cant say who, but this japanese development team has mostly worked on racing games and has released titles on the ps1, ps2, dreamcast, and xbox 360. their last title was published in the states by ubisoft, if that helps anyone figure out who they are.

point is Mr. New York, you are wrong. period.

'Kenny K"

I didn't say Japanese developers had the better looking games. But they do bitch less and don't make extreme comments as I've seen lately from American developers. They're probably not happy with the amount of resources they'll have to spend in learning how to use the PS3 effectively. But they don't go out and say crap like "they should start over".

"by looking at the remarks on this topic, i think its safe to assume that you guys dont know why sony is using the Cell in the ps3, even though its not geared towards gaming." By kenny_k.

----------------------------------------------------

The cell was desinged to be a streamer moster ,video and audio was its objectives as a processor.

Sony and Ibm invested millions and many time on it , to avoid spending more money in another cpu , sony may went with the cell.

The ps3 sales stategy is also about being a media hub...and thats why i think the cell fits it.

Only a asumption.

@@@@@ kenny

i hear yah silverwolf, my comments were not directed towards you, but i agree. japanese developers arent opening their mouth (besides a choice few) and that is their problem IMHO. until they start to express what they do or dont want, they will be stuck developing for systems like the ps3.

@ Makaveli:

yes the ps3 being a media hub did play some influence towards adding the Cell CPU in the ps3, and so did using the PS3 as a "trojan horse" to push the Cell (not to mention blue-ray).

however as far as game development is concerned. sony's menatality behind using the Cell is this: code written exclusively wont work on optimal levels on any other architecture other then the Cell.

so with this said, sony can hope that majority of the developers will develop natively on their console and consume most/all of the R&D budget for that game, leaving little to nothing left for the competitors when it comes to game budgets. sony is banking on the theory that they will hold the largest instal base by a large margin so that it justifies the development community to pick them first, regardless of the cost.

this is why majority of the last gen games were developed on the ps2 first and then ported up. regardless of any complex architecture, lack of documentation, or inferior power, sony locked up the gaming community because their large instal base was too large to ignore. the last gen, however did not have budgets too large that it was usually worth it to just port the games to the other platforms. there is a chance that if Game A has a budget of of $24 million, and the ps3 version takes $18 million to make, then there will be little money to go into the development of the 360 version. <- very rough example.

@ Kenny k I can't have a opinion? your wrong by the way like always.I think the dude is a straight out disgrace and he suppose to be a professional dev.Give me a break he's a idiot for calling a console a disaster.It could have been for wii or 360.We would all see how much of a disaster ps3 is when the system

sells another 100 million + consoles and the games start shining like the sun.

yes you are entitled to an opinion and i hope that never changes Mr. new york. however you are basing your opinion vs those who work directly on the systems we discuss. how many ps3s sell doesnt make a difference to whether the system is designed poorly or not. anyone in engine's development or design will tell you the same thing: of the 3 systems, the ps3 is the most poor design of the 3. its not opinion, its fact.

again, think what you want, what i say and what developers say wont change your mind. whatever you think though makes no difference to the grand scheme of things though, and the same can be said for me as well. however i take what developers say over the words of a no nothing like you.

i know this will spur more comments of hate and ignorance but here is what another developer told me...

"I live in LA yes but it should probably be noted that I'm english NOT American...

btw - I know of ZERO happy ps3 devs, my network of friends & colleagues spans many countries including England, USA, Denmark, France, Spain, Canada, Australia, Japan, Germany & Thailand. To say that no one is pleased with the hardware is an understatement. "

as always believe me or not, makes no difference to me or the truth in general. for those curious to what team this guy works on, i'll say this. he's the lead engine designer for next gen consoles (ps3 & 360), and his team was the ONLY dev team to release 2 games on 360 launch. if you figure out the launch games and then the developers for those games, the answer will be obvious.

if there is anyone that has a right to comment on the hardware it's developers like him

New york, if you honestly believe that 100 million people are gonna pony up $500 for a ps3, I've got some ocean front real estate to sell you. In Kansas.

Ps2 didn't move serious units until it dropped below $200 I'm not sure the ps3 will ever get that cheap.

@@@@ hedge iconic

IT Will take atleast 2 or 3 years to sony drop the ps3 price to something around $200.

The price of the blu ray drives dont help it.

There are rumour that sony is planing to change the cell manufacturing process to 65nm , but for how much it will drop its retail price still a mistery.

This is in a console point of view...

@ makaveli:

its no rumor about the manufacturing process changing to 65nm, it was announced shortly after microsoft announced the same thing. both should happen this year some time but dont expect systems with the new chips to reach store shelves until the end of the year.

regardless, i wouldnt imagine seeing the ps3 drop to $200 for 3 years AT LEAST. honestly i see 4 years being more realistic with how sony is currently losing on the ps3 and they tend to make profit off of their hardware within a few years.

from cost, to design, to development, and more; the ps3 has wrong choices all over it. sad thing is, it will be sony paying the most for it.

then again, maybe its justified punishment.

It took 31/2 years for the ps2 to drop from $300 to $150. Do you guys actually think the ps3 price will drop twice as much in the same time?

dunno how guys think, hedge iconic is dead right, that console will not shed that amount of cash, unless sony really want to increase sales to a large extent

Here is the way I see things:

This man was looking at things from this point in time; he was considering the future, but based on the elements found in todays environment; for example, price.

It is common knowledge that the Xbox 360 is by far the industry leader in terms of worldwide sales. I agree with all of you that it really was a stupid statement for this man to say that the Wii would have sold more systems than the Xbox 360 by Christmas of 2007, especially when you consider that the Xbox 360 sold a larger number of systems than the Wii did during the Wii's launch period of Christmas 2006.

Playstation 3 will obviously remain a distant third in terms of worldwide sales; it will stay that way for quite a while. The facts of cost and price reduction will play key roles in this, but the disappointing performance of the PS3 also plays a key role.

If the Xbox 360 always stayed at a price of $399 for the premium system, while the Wii always stayed at a price of $249, then eventually everyone in the $399 market would have purchased an Xbox 360, while the larger $249 market-base would continue to purchase Wii's, which means that if the game systems had 10 or 15 year lifecycles, then what this man is saying might happen...but that ISN'T what happens in the world of electronics.

What actually will happen at some point in 2007 is we will see price-drops for both the Wii and the Xbox 360. I believe that we will see the price of the Wii drop to $199, and I believe that we will see the price of the Xbox 360 drop to $299. The Xbox 360 core system will probably drop to $199. This is when we will truly see the major benefits of having the core system, because the market gap between people interested in a $199 product instead of a $299 product is HUGE, whereas the gap between a $299 product and a $399 product isn't that large.

When the price of the Xbox 360 drops, I fully expect the sales to increase by a HUGE level! It will be like a volcano erupted with the number of people who will now be able to afford the Xbox 360 systems at those price ranges.

We need to remember that the magic price-points in gaming history have previously been $299 for a launch price (although this now seems to have been raised to $399, due mainly to the HUGE sales success of the Xbox 360 premium system), $199 (which represents the first price drop of approximately $100), $149 (which represents the second price drop of approximately $50), and $129 (which represents the third price drop of approximately $20).

In the past, there was also a price-drop to $99 for some of the other game systems. $99 is a price-point that the Wii may eventually reach, but I don't think the Xbox 360 will ever reach that price point, because the hardware is significantly more advanced than the Wii hardware...but economies of scale may allow it to happen over the course of time. It may end up being $99 vs $129 in the end, five years from now...but long term guessing like that is based on a lot of speculation.

One thing I can tell you for sure is that the Wii does not offer high-definition graphics or true 5.1 sound, and it is actually less powerful than the original Xbox. The Wii is not a "direct" competitor to the Xbox 360. The Xbox 360 and the Wii are almost "friendly competitors." The ironic thing is that Microsoft actually says the Wii is more of a competitor than Sony is. But that is political talk which means (Sony isn't a competitor at all, due to poor worldwide sales).

I think all three systems will likely see price-drops at some point this year. The increase in sales for the Wii won't be that large, because it is only a $50 drop in price; although, it does allow Nintendo to reach the traditionally successful $199 price-point.

When Microsoft drops to $299 and $199, we will truly see the Xbox 360 take off to a level that puts it in an even more distant first-place than it already is. The sales forecasts and the high-quality games for the Xbox 360 really cause me to believe that. Games like Mass Effect, Crackdown, Grand Theft Auto 4, and Halo 3 are just a few of the reasons why I believe that.

Even if the PS3 drops $100, it will STILL not see a noticeable increase in terms of the number of people reached by the price-points. In North America, there is not a big difference between $599 and $499, or $499 and $399. And in Europe, there is not a big difference between $900 and $800. In Japan, I don't think there will be a price drop this year, because Sony lowered the price at launch, because they knew the system was going to sell poorly and that it would sell like a total disaster...which it did end up doing--selling like a total disaster.