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Xbox360 Ultimate? >
2007/08/12 14:15:37: Posted by vividbreeze
According to a Gamestop employee, Microsoft is making the elites into premiums, and dropping the core. He also mentions a brand new box called 'Xbox 360 Ultimate' that has an hdmi port, and a HD-DVD drive to compete with blu-ray. Head on over to Neogaf to view the whole conversation, but for now take this topic as a grain of salt.

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Written by IseWise on 2007/08/12

Because a gamestop employee knows so much about Microsoft's development plans.

I take this article with a HUGE grain of salt.
Written by CianMCL on 2007/08/12

if its ture theres going to be ALOT of pissed 360 owners out there
Written by blacktiger on 2007/08/12

i dont think so, it just a bundle just like other ones like elite, remember elite became sucessful , and the ultimate is gonna be twice bigger, im even thinking of getting if the price is actually worth it !
Written by MAKAVELI_ on 2007/08/12

With a hd dvd drive????

I don’t think so , lets be honest , hd dvd is pretty much dead in the water , waiting for the last blow from Blu Ray.

I’m not seeing Microsoft increasing manufacturing costs of the console to please only a decreasing minority of HD DVDs supporters.

But Yes , Is well possible (if it come to be true) coming with a larger Hard Drive and , new slimmer design and the so wished “65nm” CPU.

Only time will tell , Folks.
Written by Smarty Pantz on 2007/08/12

Well, the only difference between Premium and Elite right now is 100gb and $100. The 20gb HDD must be more difficult to procure at this point (are they even made anymore?)... bumping it up to say 60gb will make the Elite less relevant.

Although, adding the internal HD-DVD makes no sense to MS, since its much, much more costly vs. a DVD drive and they reap no direct benefits from HD-DVD movie sales. Its also on its way out, as soon as the Universal exclusivity deal runs out, HD-DVD is gone.

Basically, as Sony's Jack Tretton said, MS has a VERY INCONSISTENT design in their 360's ... so many configurations, so many SKUs.. yet, none with built in WiFi.. in 2007.
Written by Krogan Battle Master Urdnot Wrex on 2007/08/12

Response to MAKAVELI_:

To give you an idea of how incorrect your statement about HD DVD is, I want you to know how the executives view the "format war."

The executives have said that so far the people who have purchased HD DVD players and Blu-ray players are "not just 'early-adaptors,' they are 'early' 'early-adaptors.'"

MAKAVELI_, the key things we need to remember are:

1. HD DVD offers better performance with stricter mandatary performance standards than Blu-ray.

2. HD DVD has cost advantages not found with Blu-ray.

If the Xbox 360 includes HD-DVD, then the war is over for Blu-ray!

Also, it is worth noting that WB has developed a dual-format disc that includes both HD DVD and Blu-ray on the same disc. WB says they are willing to license that technology to other manufacturers.

Here is a great article that explains things much more clearly, which Yahoo wrote yesterday:


By the way, the Core Xbox 360 is being promoted more than anything else in other parts of the world. The role of the Core system may be over at places like Best Buy and Circuit City (where hardcore gamers tend to shop), but at places like Wal-Mart, K-Mart, and other retailers where parents bring younger kids along, then it is still very important to see the lower priced console on the shelves.

Also, in other parts of the world like South America and parts of Asia, where the videogame markets are in fact very large, but the high-speed Internet presence isn't there yet, the Elite and Premium systems will play the minority role, while the Core system will by BY FAR the most popular version of the Xbox 360.

That is the entire reason why Micrsoft decided to release a version of the Xbox 360 without a hard drive.
Written by MAKAVELI_ on 2007/08/12

@@@@ utp

Why even bother replying to me????? Get lost already.

"viral marketing tool"
Written by MiiWiiWiiControl on 2007/08/12

The reason Sony could say they have a ten year plan is because they are over their hardware planning phase and they could move to their next phase (improving PSN, HOME, PSCamera, and possibly Rumble ext ), unlike MS that can’t make up their mind and don’t know when enough Is enough its too many SKU’s out. If this is true this will confuse Consumers especially Clueless moms and dads this holiday season, this will make it easier for them to just choose something that has everything already in it Sony’s PS3.

MS is juggling consoles like Krogan Juggles Balls on his chin when B-Gates is standing over him. In the end this is not good for the industry and this hurts people who just want to game and Krogan’s eyes.

=Gotti.- I did not call anyone a name or use profanity in this post.
Written by whYte420 on 2007/08/12

It just kills me when people think they're smarter than billion dollar companies....
Written by Cryos on 2007/08/12

here's my question....

with the inclusion of the HD-DVD, and the recent comments about not enough space on a dvd, could we be looking at the 360 having the option to develop games for HD-DVD disk?

and if that IS the case, wouldn't that make all 360 consoles without the HD-DVD incompatible for newer games?
Written by xCHRISx on 2007/08/12

To Cryos:

Yes, it would make all the current 360 consoles incompatible with the HD-DVD games, which is why that won't happen, and why this is nothing more than a silly rumour.

I love my 360, but HD-DVD is on it's way out, unfortunately. MS knows this and isn't going to sink more money into a format that hasn't really caught on.
Written by Krogan Battle Master Urdnot Wrex on 2007/08/12

MAKAVELI_, when I am writing with the screen-name of "Krogan Battle Master Urdnot Wrex," please don't call me "UTP." Obviously, UTP is an initial for my other screen-name of Unbiased Technology Professor. But, you could call me Urdnot Wrex if you wanted to.

Urdnot Wrex is a COOL character in Mass Effect for Xbox 360! And I REALLY DO think Mass Effect is the game I am looking forward to more than anything else!

But, MAKAVELI_, the most important point is that you and everyone else OBVIOUSLY know who I am (Michael Zoran) regardless of what my "screen-name," is.

But I am absolutely amazed that you would be so RUDE and MEAN to use the article written by 1UP Editor-In-Chief, Sam Kennedy, to tell me to "Get lost," because I am a "Viral marketing tool."

You used to be nice to me! And you never called me a “viral marketing tool,” before!

This is a PERFECT piece of EVIDENCE that PROVES the article written by 1UP Editor-In-Chief, Sam Kennedy, making False Announcement accusations against ME (Michael Zoran--using the name of Thomas Brooks--which EVERYBODY OBVIOUSLY KNOWS IS ME!!!) has HURT MY REPUTATION and made it so people don't consider me a reliable source of information anymore, even when I provide such a HUGE amount of accurate information and Cite my References, such as the Yahoo article I Cited on this page.

I shouldn't have to deal with emotional pain and stress like that because of 1UP Editor-In-Chief, Sam Kennedy!!!

Legal Precedents have already been established in this area. In fact, there is a term called "Dooced," which is what I will be seeking against Sam Kennedy.

Dooced is what happens when a professional employee uses a blog to make business references that are made in an irresponsible way. Making False Announcements, like Sam Kennedy did against me and Microsoft is DEFINITELY something that SHALL get him DOOCED!

And he deserved to be Dooced for being so cold, selfish, heartless, and irresponsible to make such False Announcements in front of such a huge audience that I care so much about, since I am a hardcore videogame industry enthusiast!
Written by Krogan Battle Master Urdnot Wrex on 2007/08/12


Response to Cryos:

(1) The comments about "not enough space in DVD" were just rumors that Rockstar Games put an end to. In fact, the delay of Grand Theft Auto 4 has nothing to do with space on a disc, but it has EVERYTHING to do with the difficulty of working with the Playstation 3.

In fact, if you want to look at something interesting about "space," due to the delay of GTA 4, the first of the two "Extra Episodes," that will appear only on the Xbox 360 will now likely be released on the actual DVD disc for the Xbox 360, rather than as a download. This means the DVD disc version of Grand Theft Auto 4 on the Xbox 360 will actually have MORE SPACE on it than the Playstation 3 version of Grand Theft Auto 4.

(2) Another announcement that was recently made that puts an end to "lack of DVD space," rumors is the fact that Bethesda will release a new "Game of the Year Edition," version of Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion.

The "Game of the Year" Edition will include the new shader design, and it will include the Knights of the Nine mode that is included in the PS3 version and currently available as a download for the Xbox 360. The Shivering Isles mode is a true 30-hour Expansion that is only available for Xbox 360; it will always be available as a download.

(3) Microsoft does not allow anyone to develop games for HD-DVD. If you want to see a perfect example of how strict Microsoft is with their policies, just look at the way Microsoft does not allow any third-party company to develop wireless controllers for the Xbox 360.

It is 100% safe to say that we will only see dual-layer DVD discs uses for Xbox 360 software.

Dual-layer DVD discs provide MORE THAN ENOUGH space for LITERALLY OVER 99% of software! LITERALLY, less than 1% of software has a need for more than what is offered on a dual-layer DVD.

Only a very long RPG would have such a need, and the solution is very simple: just use more than one disc! Play the first disc for 40 hours, then use the second disc for the next 40 hours!

This is something consumers OBVIOUSLY have NO PROBLEM WITH, because Final Fantasy VII is considered the best version in the series, and it was on multiple CD-ROM discs.

Response to xCHRISx:

I strongly suggest that you read the Yahoo article that I cited above. From the point of view of industry executive the "format war," is so young that only "early," "Early-Adaptors," are interested in either HD-DVD or Blu-ray movies!

In other words, we haven't even entered the Era of "Early-Adopters," yet. We are in an Era of "Pre-Early Adaptorers," who are VERY HARCORE and definitely DO NOT represent the mass market!

Let's not forget that the Beta format of Sony originally started out with a sales lead over VHS...but look what happened in that Format War--or should I say embarrassment for Sony's Betamax format!

HD-DVD isn't "on-its way out" at all!!!

The FACT is that HD-DVD offers better performance than Blu-ray. HD-DVD has STRICT, MANDATORY performance requirements that are NOT FOUND in the Blu-ray format!

And HD-DVD is a better format at a LOWER PRICE!

Sure, when the prices are $1,000 vs $500, or $500 vs $300, the difference isn't that big. But once the magic price points of $199 and $149 are reached for HD-DVD, the HD-DVD format will be like Hulk Hogan when he is HULKED OUT!!!

When HD-DVD reaches the price point of $199 later in the year, and Blu-ray is still at $399 or $349, then THAT is when we will really see a HUGE shift in sales!!!

In fact, the Yahoo article points out that actual "Dedicated" HD-DVD players OUTSELL the actual "Dedicated" Blu-ray players. If it wasn't for the PS3, the number of Blu-ray players would be embarrassingly LOW!

Two more facts:

(1) 75% of Playstation 3 owners use the system only with the Composite cable included with the system.

(2) Only 40% of current Playstation 3 owners are aware that it has the ability to play Blu-ray movies.

*** It is also worth pointing out that the Blu-ray format can NEVER be a winner when games like, "The Bourne Ultimatum" are released ONLY on HD-DVD!!!

Universal Pictures is the most valuable movie studio in Hollywood, and they only make movies for the HD-DVD format.

Now that Warner-Bros. have developed a dual-format disc, and are "encourages other movies studios to releas movies on both HD-DVD," then that means it is just a matter of Universal Pictures versus Sony...and there is OBVIOUSLY no comparison there! Universal Pictures is INFINITELY more valuable with all of their DECADES worth of classics!

*** But I think the key thing to remember is that there is an excellent chance that neither HD-DVD nor Blu-ray will have what it takes to replace standard DVD. The On-Demand video-services offered by cable providers is very incredible. Comcast offers HUNDREDS of FREE movies and TV shows that you can order WHENEVER YOU WANT!!! And look at all of the HUNDREDS of movies and TV shows you can order on the Xbox 360!!!

And with all of the On-Demand stuff, you can watch products from EVERY manufacturer. I watch Universal AND Sony stuff on my Xbox 360 and Comcast DVR!!!


Until the pricepoints of $199, $149, $129, and $99 are reached, we will NOT have a winner in the Format War.


HD-DVD will reach those pricepoints MUCH EARLIER than Blu-ray will...but by the time Blu-ray does reach those price points, it will be TOO LATE...

How do I know???

Just look at VHS vs Beta for proof!
Written by Cryos on 2007/08/12

Response to Krogan:

1. To believe that Microsoft would not change their mind about HD-DVD as an option for games seems to fly in the face of what M$ is doing. Incorporating HMDI, and a HD-DVD drive, seems to pave the way to me. M$ is shuffling their systems around so much, I wouldn't be at all suprised if they did.

2. Given 2 years, when graphics will be better, (thus taking up more space) it seems like a compromise would have to happen on developers end, to put an emphasis on image/video compression or features/playtime. With that being the case, sony has set itself up for the future very well.

Written by Cryos on 2007/08/12

3. I am interested in where, exactly, you are getting your facts from. You say DVD disks provide more than enough room for 99% of games. I'm interested.... how many of those 99% are pushing 9+ gigs? If it's even close to 50% (which I'm sure it is) chances are developers are going to need more space REAL soon. Where did you find your stats that 75% use Composite Cables?

4. The FORMAT war is not worth even worrying about. In all actuallity, it will probably be an amagime of the two formats that prevails.

But, if I had to choose which I believed would prevail, it'd be Blu Ray.

Here's why...

Look at the top 10 grossing films of 2007.

How many of them will be released on:

Blu Ray only: 3

HD-DVD only: 0

Both: 7
Written by jlemdon on 2007/08/13

to answer Cryos question no you could play HD-DVD games on the 360 if you didn't noticed that you could play Dragon's Lair on the HD-DVD add-on.

all M$ would have to do is impliment the same program as an dashboard update to make data readable on HD-DVD add on.
Written by PimpDaddy on 2007/08/13

Why are we arguing about a baseless rumor again?????
Written by Cryos on 2007/08/13

because it's fun!!! ;o)

Written by CianMCL on 2007/08/13

as i said before if ture there will be alot of pissed off 360 owners

Written by Krogan Battle Master Urdnot Wrex on 2007/08/13


With all due respect to your math skills, I will try and make it easy for you to understand.

Xbox 360 has FAR more than 100 games currently available. Only one game uses more than one DVD. That means less than 1% of games have a need for that much data. That also means a dual-layer DVD is fine for over 99% of other software.

HUGE games such as Oblivion, Two Worlds, Mass Effect, and many others are FINE with one DVD!

That FACT alone is worthy of a: NUFF SAID!

Cryos, your statement about "future games possibly using more data," is 100% speculation that looks at things from only one point of view. You seem to forget that data Compression technology also improves with time.

And do you really think that Sports games, or Fighting games, or Puzzle games, or Family games, would use up more than a dual-layer DVD worth of space with all of the advanced compression that DirectX can take advantage of! Games in those genres don't even use up one-layer of the DVD!

Cryos, games like Dragon's Lair are not for Xbox 360; they are for HD-DVD. That game can be played on ANY form of HD-DVD player. It can be used on a PC, or a dedicated movie HD-DVD player. So, that has nothing to do with dedicated Xbox 360 games.

If Microsoft decides to release an Xbox 360 "Ultimate" system that includes an HD-DVD drive, the format of Xbox 360 games is DEFINITELY going to remain dual-layer DVD-ROM. The HD-DVD drive will be compatible with HD-DVD movies, standard DVD movies, and Xbox 360 dual-layer video games.

Microsoft would NEVER EVER give a third-party company permission to create a game using an HD-DVD disc as the format. That would create compatibility problem issues. It would be INFINITELY EASIER to simply release a dual-layer DVD game on more than one disc, similar to games like Blue Dragon and Final Fantasy VII.

Those multi-disc games are HUGE RPG games, and having them on more than one disc is NOT a problem. You simply play them for a LOOOOOONG time with one disc...then you play them for a LOOOOOOOONG time with another disc. It isn't like you're flip-flopping discs. Final Fantasy VII is considered the best game in that series, and it was on multiple discs, so it clearly is NOT a problem.
Written by Krogan Battle Master Urdnot Wrex on 2007/08/13

Cryos, you seem to have missed the point the executives at Warner Bros. have made. Sales figures at this point in time MEAN NOTHING!!! Remember, actual HD-DVD movie players have greatly outsold actual Blu-ray movie players.

Let me try and show you things from a little bit more extreme point of view to show you what those executives were saying:

Let's say that Blu-ray players outsold HD-DVD by a HUGE ratio of 10:1...but, only 10 Blu-ray players were sold, because of the high price. That means the advantage for Blu-ray sales is: 9 units.

But, let’s say the price drops to the key Target Price Point of $199, and HD-DVD outsells Blu-ray by the slim ratio of 1.25:1. Well, since 100,000 Blu-ray units were sold, that means 125,000 HD-DVD units were sold. Advantage: HD-DVD by 25,000 units.

When you add the two “Periods of Time,” in different price points together, you end up with HD-DVD having the sales advantage of 24,991 units.

I certainly hope you were able to understand that example.

See, these high price points mean NOTHING, because the potential target markets represents such an incredibly small percentage of the market!!!!! WB specifically said this is the point in time of "Early," "Early-Adaptors."

We haven't even entered the period of "Early Adaptors." And we certainly haven't entered the point of "Mass Market Interest."

When prices of $199, $149, $129, and $99 have been reached, things will change DRASTICALLY in an INSTANT!!!

That is EXACTLY what happened with VHS vs Betamax...and we all know what happened with that one.
Written by Cryos on 2007/08/13

Krogan, you seem to be missing my point

I am asking what percentage of games for the 360 use 9+ gbs on DVD-ROM. IF, as I suspect, it is close to 50% (and read carefully here, I'm not saying it is) then in order for content to stay at the quality it is, or improve, more space on disk will be needed.

Your comment about compression flies in the face of logic. Look at it this way, think of MP3, which is a compression technology. How much has it improved over the last 5 years? have files gotten smaller? have you tried compressing a ripped CD down as small as it can? the quality sucks!

Compression reaches it's limits when using a specific technology, (in my example MP3) In order to get smaller files, with Equal quality, one would have to switch to another Compression format.


You seem to think that All that matters is units sold. It doesn't. As you yourself have said when taking jabs at Sony, CONTENT MATTERS.

I'm showing you that Blu-Ray has the superior selection of titles (esp. when you consider Holiday Time and movies for kids)

There is no such thing as Early early adoptors. That's just some corporate slob talking to the board and to stock holders to increase confidence. (And the fact is, if there is such a thing as Early Early Adoptors, how many units must be sold before we reach Early Adoptors? it's a stupid phrase anyone with a brain would dismiss as double-talk)

Also, you never answered my question about where you're getting your stats. (and you say you always cite your sources)
Written by xCHRISx on 2007/08/13

I think he's got you this time, Krogan.
Written by Cryos on 2007/08/13

seems Krogun is at a loss for words
Written by arthur56k on 2007/08/14

i aint pissed
Written by madgunde on 2007/08/14

Krogan wearing blinders to the limits of DVD9 and the impending death of HD-DVD is like the minority of scientists (who have been paid off by oil companies) to refute all the climate change evidence.

He'll still be denying it in a couple of years when Blu-Ray is the victor and many 360 games are shipping on multiple discs.
Written by 360-Sagacious on 2007/08/14

As for a possible 360 Ultimate: it may piss off a lot of current 360 owners but so did the Elite. But if MS decided on a 360 Ultimate type machine (which I would love to see.) it would piss off most but may not leave them in the dust with HD-DVD games. The HD-DVD add-on has a circuit board attached to the drive with 192MB of memory integrated. I don't think it is too far fetched to release a Live Update with firmware that would allow the HD-DVD games to play through the HD-DVD add on. So a greater price drop on the already badly selling HD-DVD drive (just bought on and it still says "limited time HD-DVD King Kong and universal controller included") across the world, making it the same amount difference between SKU's, would limit the 360 current owners who will be pissed of. My first post and thoughts here. Take them as you will.

As for the format war I enjoy both formats on my PS3 and 360 HD-DVD add on so I'm not too concerned on who wins. But I think they will both be with us a long time.
Written by extremegamer on 2007/12/22

ok folks im really excited about this because this means if microsoft makes an xbox360 ultimate it means they make the elite the same price as the pro bundle the premuim to the core price and the core lower price and the new version will be the elites old price tahst really awsome but make a note that this is only rumor but then again ther was the rumor about the elite and look now ther is and elite so im pretty sure they are working on an ultimate version well i dont know why any 360 owners would be piss off because if they do make this new version then they can still return ther old ones if they are still within store warrenty but if you havent had an xbox360 yet and are planning to i sugest you wait till next year to get a 360. By the way does any one know what day it might come out?
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