HD-DVD Gaining More Studio Backing >

	2007/08/20 15:07:28: Posted by HoTHiTTeR
	Another blow to Blu-Ray; Paramount and DreamWorks Animation's Parent Company, Viacom, have decided to drop Blu-Ray support. In the ever-growing tug-of-war between formats, consumers this Christmas will have one less format to choose from when trying to purchase "Transformers" and "Shrek the Third". >Link
	Labeled With  hddvd microsoft paramount xbox 360 Comments [30]  | Rate this article: -- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10  | Avg. rating of 10.0

Shrek the Third and Transformers are two blockbusters that join classics like the Indiana Jones series, the Star Trek series, Forrest Gump, Gladiator, Braveheart and Saving Private Ryan. If that isn't a gigantic hit to Blu-Ray, I don't know what is.

the HD add on is lookin great right now

Sorry CellFish, Indiana Jones (directed by Spielberg) will not be exclusive. :`( for you.

Just found this on a website:

*****What's New

By Henning Molbaek

FIRST PUBLISHED Aug 19, 2007

"The division of Home Media Magazine said total sales of Blu-ray discs, using a Sony Corp (6758.T: Quote, Profile, Research)-backed technology, totaled 1.6 million units from January 1 through July 1, compared with 795,000 HD-DVD discs sold in that period." said a recent press release from Reuters.

It continues "Both formats were launched in spring of 2006. An estimated 3.7 million high-definition discs have been sold, including 2.2 million in Blu-ray and 1.5 million in HD-DVD through the end of July, according to Home Media."

No doubt good news for the Blu-ray camp. However, this does not mean we will get one format anytime soon. Both formats seem here to stay, at least for now. Much as we have seen with next-generation gaming consoles where Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft are fighting for the same customers.*****

These are the sales figures since the release of both Blue-Ray and HD-DVD last year. Only a 700,000 difference. Only 3.7 million movies total between both formats. Todays annoucement shakes things up even more. Just like the console wars, this high def movie format war will take a long time to decide, if ever...

This is lame. Let consumers decide which format they want without stupid under the table payoffs. Viacom is selling more Blu-Ray movies than HD-DVD, so this is a perfect example of NOT listening to their customers. Oh well. Guess they won't get any money from me since I have no plans to buy an HD-DVD drive anytime soon.

madgunde: Your being contradictory... All of these movie studios have agreements with either Blue-Ray or Hd-DVD for royalties, exclusive rights, etc... Just because you own a PS3 and thus a Blue-Ray player doesnt mean that the people who own HD-DVD players dont want movies too. Competition is good. Besides the total high definition movies sales between Blue-Ray and HD-DVD only make up 1% of all home movie sales... Whats the real reson this upsets you. Is it becuase you have already invested in Blue-Ray movies???

I think madgunde is suggesting that there be no exclusives, and that the consumer can decide which format they would like to purchase their favorite movies on.

I vote for the cheaper player, which happens to be HD-DVD.

xCHRISx: Every forum I have been to its the same complaints, and its only from Sony PS3 owners. They are upset that HD-DVD wont die. They have already invested in Blue-Ray. Both formats have thier own advantages. I personally am going to wait this high def dvd format war out till one of them wins, or see if dual-format players is the way to go.

This just goes to show that Blu-Ray was a mistake by Sony. They tried to forcefeed it to consumers using thier Playstation brand recognition. Now over 4 million consumers have paid for an unproven and unnecessary format. This is the main reason I am waiting to get a PS3. Even when the PS3 lowers its price to $399.00 I am still not going to invest in buying any high definition movies until this format war is over. early adopters always get screwed. My oldest brother got burned by the Sega Saturn, and I got burned by the Sega Dreamcast.

It would be nice to buy 1 console and choose whatever games you like. But the sad reality is that I will have to own all 3 consoles this generation, just like I had to own all 4 consoles last generation to get access to all the games I want. Not to mention the PC only games that I need to upgrade my computer all the time to be able to play them :(

wow, pimp, what is the matter with you?

1. Blu-ray is not a mistake for sony because it offers superior storage for games. so even if the format loses for movies, it will still work for sony games. All users who bought the PS3 bought it for the games, the fact it plays blu-ray is a bonus.

2. You do not need to buy all the consoles for this generation. At most, only 2. If you can't choose 2, then you're indecisive, and the fault lies with you, not the gaming companies.

Cryos: So U think by including Blu-Ray and thus driving up the price of the PS3 that Sony did not make a mistake??? Why do you think the PS3 is lagging in sales??? Why is the Wii outselling it in all 3 major territories??? The PS3 has the superior hardware to the Wii, yet the Wii is destroying the PS3 and 360 in sales. Do you still think Blu-Ray was needed??? That Sony coolaid must taste real sweet. If you really think the primary purpose of Blu-Ray was for gaming then maybe you have the problem. We all know wy Sony put Blu-Ray in the PS3. They get a good chunk of all royalties for Blue-Ray hardware and software.

@xCHRISx

Exactly. I don't want exclusives for either format. Let them compete on their own merits and let consumers decide which they want.

@PimpDaddy

I'm not being contradictory at all. See xCHRISx's post. Sure I want HD-DVD to die, just because I've already got a Blu-Ray player, and I'd like the format war to end as I think it's bad for everyone. I suspect anyone with an HD-DVD player feels the same way about Blu-Ray, and I don't blame them. What's lame is that consumers ARE voting with their wallets, and Viacom is ignoring that because they were paid off. That should piss all consumers off because it means consumer choice is being stifled by unnatural forces.

Last time I checked the Wii didnt need Blu-Ray for storage capacity or DVD movie playback to be number 1 in console sales. Last time I checked the 360 has sold almost 11 million consoles with out Blu-Ray, and has yet to have 1 game besides Blue-Dragon require anything bigger than a DVD-9. FYI the 360 has been on the market for almost 2 years. I am fully aware that Blu-Ray has much larger storage capacity than DVD. But I am also aware that is is not necessary at this time.

Just think if Blu-Ray was not in the PS3 they could have launched the console at the same time as the 360 or at least have met thier Spring 2006 launch. They wouldnt have given the 360 a head start, and would have been much more competitively priced.

Ask all the retailers how they feel about UMD movies. How many of those went unsold??? Another proprietray Sony format. Sony has been doing for decades now. Always trying to force thier media formats into acceptance. Blu-Ray, Memory Stick, Minidisc, etc...

madgunde: Are you aware that in Europe they are investigating the BDA for its tactics in getting movie studios to enter into contracts that are seens as anti-competitve??? Blu-Ray is doing the same thing as HD-DVD. Both of them are making under the table deals for exclusive movie studio support. You have a biased opinion because you are already invested in Blu-Ray. I on the other hand dont care, and it is likely that I may have to have both if I want to buy high definition movies anytime soon. Just like I will at some point be forced to buy a PS3 to play some of its exclusives because I cant get them on the 360. I can deal with that. I want the best games and the best movies. I'm not loyal to any format or any console maker.

Just because the wii doesn't need Blu-ray or HD-dvd, or the 360 doesn't, doesn't mean that Sony can't make a business decision as to whether or not to make their system utilize Blu-ray technology.

Was it a move that they did for the greater good? no, they did it for self-fullfilling reasons. (and I never claimed they didn't.)



However, IF blu-ray doesn't make it as a movie format, then Sony still has the ability to utilize it as a Gaming disk, which allows more space for game and content. (look at Heavenly Sword w/ 10 gb of sound storage *link at bottom*) . Same way M$ will with HD-dvd with their next system (if they're smart). If you think we're not coming into an age where more space is better, than you're the one drinking the kool-aide.

everyone thinks that the race with the console war is a sprint, but it is instead, a marathon. Sony has positioned itself better than it's competetors for the future, and I believe, after all is said and done, that Sony will have sold more units than the 360.

We, as consumers have the choice as to whether or not we will purchase these formats for movies.

[link removed]



hzzp://www.ps3fanboy.com/2007/08/14/heavenly-sword-has-10gb-of-sound-data-alone/

Cryos,

Currently, less than 1% of games require more space than one dual-layer DVD.

HOWEVER, even when there are times when a game needs more space than a dual-layer DVD, an HD-DVD would provide FAR MORE THAN ENOUGH space for a videogame!!!

In fact, if Sony would have used HD-DVD on the Playstation 3, the PS3 games would actually have 5GB more space than they do now!!!

The Standard format currently used for all PS3 games, and virtually all Blu-ray movies is 25GB single-layer Blu-ray discs.

The Standard format currently used by virtually all HD-DVD movies is dual-layer 30GB discs.

This means that if Sony would have used HD-DVD for the PS3, the games would have 5GB of additional space, and the system would be at least $100 less expensive.

If Sony were to ever try and use a dual-layer 50GB Blu-ray disc, it would actually cost quite a bit more than a triple-layer 45GB HD-DVD disc.

Paramount Pictures says that one of the fundamental reasons why they are now going to produce movies exclusively for HD-DVD is because of the fact that HD-DVD has much lower Production costs, due to the fact that HD-DVD uses the same Production facilities as standard DVD discs.

That was one of the fundamental reasons why HD-DVD was selected as the Official Successor to the standard DVD format.

Blu-ray had a chance to become the Official successor of DVD, just like HD-DVD did...but HD-DVD won.

The question is, which company is going to be next to abandon Blu-ray now that HD-DVD has reached the first magic price point of $299...the next magic price is $199, and I bet that is when we see even more companies jump off the ship of Blu-ray, and onto the ship of HD-DVD.

meh, its still anybodys game... best to just wait it out

Krogan, it was soooo nice when you decided to take your hiatus from posting crap on here.

Why would sony use a competitors technology on their system? (they wouldn't)

Using the same old "dvd-9 has more than enough space" BS argument does NOT carry any water with the argument I'm making, so cut the crap.

Fact is, (if you read the article I posted) Heavenly Sword developers were close to using a DUAL-LAYER Blu-ray, which holds 50GB of data, more than your HD-DVD

Bottom line, whichever format wins the movie war, I believe M$ and Sony will continue to use their developed technology for their respective gaming consoles.

With new graphical engines like Carmacks Tech 5 taking advantage of huge uncompressed images we are seeing a time when space is extremely importan for games. Microsoft took a risk when they released the 360 by not providing game developers a less restricted development platform. Either M$ didnt see this coming or this is confusing the hell out of me, but the reality of the matter is the more space you have for a game the greater the level of detail that will be produced in the game. If you dont believe that then go read up on Tech 5. Id like to see M$ bring out games that use the HD-DVD drive cos then id get one but history tells us that having the public buy an add on for a games console to play certain games doesnt work, Sega learned that the hard way with 32x and Sega CD.

As for movies I think that there is room for both formats, why does everyone think that there has to be an overall winner? I dont really care as I dont like movies.

Krogan, that's the dumbest thing I've ever seen you post. If you're going to compare dual layer HD-DVD, why on earth wouldn't you compare it to dual layer BD??? The reason most movies and games are single layer BD right now is because nobody currently has a need for it, but when they do need it, you can be sure they'll use a dual layer BD.

Man, what a looney.

Response to madgunde:

You apparently don't understand the way things CURRENTLY ARE in the industry.

So, let me explain things to you in a simple way, based on the CURRENT situation in the industry, as things are at THIS POINT in time, and the foreseeable future.

(1) The CURRENT "Standard" used for Blu-ray movie discs is single-layer 25GB discs.

(2) The CURRENT "Standard" used for HD-DVD movie discs is dual-layer 30GB discs.

*** When you go to a store, and you pick up a movie, such as Superman Returns, which appears on both formats, the Blu-ray version is only 25GB in size, while the HD-DVD version is 30GB in size. THAT is the reason WHY the HD-DVD version has an ADDITIONAL Sound Format that is NOT found on the Blu-ray disc.

One other thing, madgunde, for movies using VC-1, there is virtually never a need to have more than 30GB of data. Even if there were, it is very inexpensive to simply use a three-layer 45GB HD-DVD. The same can NOT be said about the dual-layer Blu-ray disc.

Remember, madgunde, one of the factors that contributed to HD-DVD being selected as the Official Successor to standard DVD is the fact that HD-DVD was able to produce Hybrid discs that have both HD-DVD and standard DVDs on the same disc. There are already plenty of HD-DVD movies using that technology.

But with Blu-ray, all that was said was more of Sony's lies saying, "it's possible." But those professional engineers who were selecting the Official Success to the DVD format are NOT stupid, like the Editors of magazines. Those engineers KNEW that Sony was preaching nonsense (again!).

madgunde, with all due respect, you truly are one of those people who believes Sony's nonsense lies of "4D gaming at 120 frames per second."

More like "Struggles to run at 30 frames per second at 720p" in the PS3 version of NCAA Football 2008, compared to "Runs smoothly at 60 frames per second at 1080p resolution," in the Xbox 360 version. Those are quotes from Gamespot.

I guess you don't "like to play games at 60fps at 1080p resolution," do you, madgunde...The thought of playing a Football game without the controller rumbling is bad enough!!! That alone would be reason NOT to get the PS3 version.

And before you ask, "Why did you bring the PS3 into this." Simple, because "Lies of Blu-ray," ended up diverting me to "Lies of Sony," thus taking me to some of the classis "Sony PS3 lies."

Cryos:

So, you are saying that the developers of Heavenly Sword (i.e. Heavenly Flop, ever since its disappointing demo) was "Close to using at 50GB disc because of the need for space," but ended up only using a 25GB disc...Ummmmmmmmm, that doesn't sound close to me.

I think what you might mean is, using UNCOMPRESSED data, the game was going to come close to using slightly more than 25GB of space...but, it certainly would NOT have come remotely close to filling a 50GB disc with data.

If the "Standard," disc format of single-layer 25GB Blu-ray could be used for Heavenly Sword, then the "Standard" disc format of dual-layer 30GB HD-DVD could be used for that game.

And Cryos, you need to understand what I mean by "Standard." Virtually all Blu-ray discs currently in use--for both movies and videogames--are single-layer 25GB discs...that is why it is called the "Standard."

But with HD-DVD, virtually all of the discs in use today are dual-layer 30GB discs. That is why it is called the "Standard."

Cryos, you also need to understand that if there is a need to use a disc format other than the "standard," it is actually less expensive to use a three-layer 45GB HD-DVD disc than it is to use a dual-layer 50GB Blu-ray disc, because dual-layer Blu-ray discs have such a high defect ratio.

It is inconceivable that a game in this generation or next generation would need more than 45GB of data. The compression techniques available would allow even the hugest RPG games to be created with true 1080p Native Resolutions.

Krogan, I cannot believe you are this blind to all other things (everyone has admitted benefits to both, but you keep paddling your boat with one oar, around in circles)

If there WERE such a technology as 3 layer dvds, wouldn't they use that technology, instead of putting out a new format? not to mention, more layers means slower read times. SOOOOOO (if we logically put this together) Having ALL your information on one layer, is better, and faster, than having it on 2. So clearly, Blu-ray has the edge, because 1 layer holds more.

Also, standards change, so even though what is considered "standard" now, may not be that way a year or more from now. Thus the advantage of blu-ray, with it's capacity to hold 50gb, if need be.

I personally believe that there will be a hybrid of the 2 for movies.

But for games, I see sony and M$ using their respective formats for gaming well into the future.





Also, Krogan, don't knock Heavenly Sword if you haven't played it. and if they were "close" to going over 25Gb of data, they were "close" to needing a dual layer disk. Why? because 30Gb will not fit on a 25Gb disk, right? (simple math) thus the NEED to go up to a 50Gb disk

Also, as of now, the 360 cannot run in 1080p, only 1080i. get your facts straight

@Cryos

your last statement just make me realize you don't know what the heck you're talking about.

"Also, as of now, the 360 cannot run in 1080p, only 1080i. get your facts straight"

do some research....

here's my research, read......

hzzp://www.gamespot.com/features/6139690/p-2.html

if it's changed since then, my mistake. but if not, shut your yap

Cryos: Actually the 360 can run in 1080P using component, VGA, and HDMI if those connections are available. In fact they even have an update for the HD-DVD drive that allows it to display in 1080P over HDMI. I found the info on majornelsons website. But you do know quite a few HDTV manufacturers do not support 1080P using component. And obviously not all 360 hardware supports HDMI. I think Krogan mentioned that it was a tripple layer HD-DVD not a tripple laver DVD disc. The argument he is making is that a dual layer HD-DVD 30GB disc is cheaper to manufacture than a single layer 25GB Blu-Ray disc. Last thing. Microsoft supports Hd-DVD as an option. Toshiba is the company that gets the lionshare of the royalties. Just like Sony gets the lionshare of Blu-Ray loyalties. As a consumer I would rather swap a disc and not pay extra using DVD-9, then pay for an unproven unnecessary Blu-Ray format because Sony made it standard in every PS3. Consumers should be given the option to choose...

who cares what res a 360 can run at. im more concerned about those 3 red lights that keep popping up.

bluray is better than HD and thats looking at this whole thing objectively. u can argue about the little shit all you want it just makes u look retarded like Krogan.

sticky: Bring it then. Why is Blu-Ray better from your supposed objective point of view???

Pimp, thank you for the information about the display of the 360.

As for Krogan's argument that it is cheaper to manufacture dual-layer HD-DVDs, that's not true. It actually costs about the same to manufacture a dual layer HD-DVD as it does a Blu-ray disk, and in some instances, blu-ray comes in cheaper.

very interesting article.....

hzzp://wesleytech.com/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-replication-costs-revealed/111/

Cryos: Your welcome. I am waiting for the new 65NM 360's and another price drop to puchase a 2nd 360 to finally enjoy 1080P over HDMI. I am getting a new 1080P HDTV real soon. I wihs I had a crystal ball so I would know which format will eventually win, but that being said I guess regular DVD upconverted will have to do for now. I thinks its pretty cool though that both the Blu-Ray in the PS3 and 360 HD-DVD add on drives are updatable through firmware.