ATI Says Xbox360 Cannot Run DirectX 10 >

	2006/08/24 18:00:49: Posted by DM
	There were some recent rumors on the net that told of the Xbox360's ability to run DirectX 10 with an update. Well, now ATI has come out to officially claim that the 360 cannot run DX10, although it may be able to replicate some of the grphical abilities of the software. >Link
	Labeled With  xbox360 microsoft ati Comments [30]  | Rate this article: -- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10  | Avg. rating of 10.0

Ha ha! PC FTW!

Your PC can't do it either

Apologize for the person who had told a lie up to now here.

The Xbox 360 currently is based around the DirectX 9 programming language for PC, which makes PC ports very easy. Microsoft was able to use DirectX 9 technology with the Xbox 360 because it was already the top-of-the-line standard for PC development when the Xbox 360 was released. Obviously, the Xbox 360 would not be based around DirectX 10 in the same way, because Windows Vista won't be available until sometime in 2007.

Thankfully, Microsoft has designed DirectX 9 so that it can be adjusted and improved very easily in order to remain very similar to adjustments and improvements in the PC development environment. Microsoft will be able to modify the Unified Shader Xbox 360 development environment so that it is the EQUIVALENT of DirectX 10, but would not technically be able to be called DirectX 10, even though its performance would be nearly identical.

A system like the Playstation 3 that does not use this sort of Unified Shader program language is really going to have a difficult time converting a game like Crysis. This is probably the reason why the developers who were interviewed said they didn't like the performance of the Playstation 3 when they were doing experiments with it. Square Enix said that it took them less than a year to convert Final Fantasy XI to the Xbox 360, because it used the Direct X programming language. However, Square Enix also said that the reason why they would not be releasing Final Fantasy XI for the Playstation 3 is because it would literally take them over three years to develop for the Playstation 3, since they would have to start from scratch.

I believe that there will be a port of Crysis...but it will only be on the Xbox 360. This makes me very happy to be an owner of the Xbox 360. I really like that sort of First-Person-Shooter genre, and the Xbox 360 is the KING of that genre!

I also like sports games, including soccer videogames, and EA announced today that FIFA 2007 would be released EXCLUSIVELY for the Xbox 360!!! When you consider that both EA an Konami have next-generation HDTV soccer games only for the Xbox 360 for a 12-month period of time, it makes sense to get an Xbox 360 if you are a soccer fan, like me!!!

"I also like sports games, including soccer videogames, and EA announced today that FIFA 2007 would be released EXCLUSIVELY for the Xbox 360!!! When you consider that both EA an Konami have next-generation HDTV soccer games only for the Xbox 360 for a 12-month period of time"

You dont actually read announcements do you? You just quote shit from wherever you get it from? If you dont actually understand the story by now, I'd advise you to read the comment pages of this very site, and read before you post.

You're a liar.The translation article that is the origin of your remark concerning Final Fantasy XI is a mis-translation. Please translate the original by yourself. It is not PS3 version that transplants the Windows version, and a development period of Final Fantasy XI of a new graphics engine version to take three years.

Original ttp://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20060419/ffxi.htm

編：　たとえば「Ever Quest」では数年ごとにグラフィックスエンジンをそっくり入れ替えて寿命を伸ばしてきました。そういった選択肢もあり得るんでしょうか?

where's opta I want him to eat his words.

田中氏：　物理的には可能でしょう。ただ、「Ever Quest」みたいに全部0から次のエンジンに向けてすべてを作り直すというようなものは、「ファイナルファンタジーXI」位のスペックのものになってきちゃうと大変は大変なんですよね。

今回のXbox 360版もいわゆるWindows版からの移植レベルで、Xbox 360専用にすべてを作り直したわけではないですから。

1から全部やろうとすれば多分2～3年はかかってしまうので、その労力があったらもっと最初から次世代機をターゲットにした新しいものを作っていった方が得策なのかなと。ユーザーにもそっちの方がメリットは大きいのかなと思ったりするわけです。

Exactly A, as for this whole "direcx9 can be just like 10" without the name is ludicrous.

No it cannot, and an ati person has confirmed it, dont try and put your own ms spin on it. This means that the whole cross platform development tools will come with a few hitches because in a years time pc games will be using direcx10 which the 360 cannot run, so porting games will not be this one step process. It dosent take anything away from 360, and with modifications crysis and other pc games for a while, can run on ps3 or 360, but when it cant run directx10 IT CANT.

Also the 360 version is more like directX9.5, which is the advancements that ati and ms made on it, but it is not directX10, that what was clarified.

Where's Optavius in his defensive attack mode??!

This is going to be a marketing/PR mess for MS. They want to push the Vista/DX10 environment as the top-of-line next-gen platform for PCs; heck Crysis is optimised for that. Yet, their 'next-gen' system wont be able to handle next-gen PC games without being scaled down to DX9 standards. Not a good move on MS's part, and to have the GPU maker CLEARLY stating it is even worse i think.

"I also like sports games, including soccer videogames, and EA announced today that FIFA 2007 would be released EXCLUSIVELY for the Xbox 360!!! When you consider that both EA an Konami have next-generation HDTV soccer games only for the Xbox 360 for a 12-month period of time, it makes sense to get an Xbox 360 if you are a soccer fan, like me!!!"

Fifa 07 and PES6 are NOT exclusively for Xbox 360, no matter how Microsoft tries to put it. Both are coming to PS2 and other consoles too (just not PS3). And I wouldn't be that happy, because IGN says PES6 for Xbox 360 will only have 2-player Online mode, whereas even the PS2 version has 8 players. And the graphical leap is pathetically small, with only a couple of new animations and otherwise crappy next-gen graphics.

the 360 does not run on any specific DirectX#, but instead its own unique set of tools. the GPU has been designed to be easily compatible with any version of DirectX. Alot of what directX10 brings to the PC is to remove a lot of the “overhead” that plagues much of PC programming which is not an issue on consoles. feature and technology wise the 360 GPU should be able to support all of the DirectX10 upgrades

even thought it may not now, just like with the pc it's just a software update away and BAM xbox360 will have directX 10 because the 360 has the capabilities t run windows vista and we all know what comes along with that :) so if your an xbox360 owner stand up and be proud of your american made winning gaming machine because you and i know that it will have all of the best games and exclusives :)

ummm ... what part of .. "ATI has come out to officially claim that the 360 cannot run DX10," .. is confusing to you?

THEMADBARBER - you are a special kind of idiot.

DX10 is NOT a software update away fool. It's all hardware. I know you have to justify it to yourself somehow for buying one of the crappiest, unreliable consoles ever made.

95% of what the 360 has, the PC will have also, so that blows your little "exclusives" theory out of the water.

360 = joke

"I also like sports games, including soccer videogames, and EA announced today that FIFA 2007 would be released EXCLUSIVELY for the Xbox 360!!! " by mike

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fifa series realy got nothing on pro evolution series.

im glad that you apreciate your xbox360 , i like it too. and no doubt that x360 is the king in FPS games.

""even thought it may not now, just like with the pc it's just a software update away and BAM xbox360 will have directX 10 because the 360 has the capabilities t run windows vista and we all know what comes along with that :) so if your an xbox360 owner stand up and be proud of your american made winning gaming machine because you and i know that it will have all of the best games and exclusives :) "" BY THEMADBARBER

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ARE u serious with you post or you benn smoking weed?

1- who told you that x360 will run vista?(eventuly will be possible share data , but you cant run vista in full on x360)



2- DTX10 is api that will bring new features agaist dtx9...you could instal it , but if you hardware( graphics core) dont soport some or all of the new features you simple cant enjoy it.

p.s i remneber in 2001 when i had a geforce 2.

I instaled the dtx 8 ,run the 3d mark2001 and the test of the nature simply didnt apear cos the hardware didnt suport it.

now are you clear about dtx10 and vista?

HAHAHAHA

Well well well? Anyway eat my words you say? Its been known for a long time the 360 doesn't have ALL the requirements for directx10, but it has many of them regardless of it being able to still pull dx 10 only features it still can't be "properly called dx10" because MS is strict on what they clasiffy as a full dx 10 part. If it can still pull of dx10 features (which the 360 gpu can I guess this argument is settled)

Stream out can be done through memexport which is a dx 10 class feature, displacement mapping becomes an effortless single pass algorithm for the 360 (which is something the geometry shader can enable) Stream out is something the geometry shader does (and this is ati telling that through memexport the 360 can enable that functionality.) An all GPU particle system (where they are fully interactive) is another example of dx10 class functionality and this has been used on kameo a launch title.. and Halo 3 is also using a gpu run particle system.

"In simple terms the MEMEXPORT function is a method by which Xenos can push and pull vectorised data directly to and from system RAM. This becomes very useful with vertex shader programs as with the capabilities to scatter and gather to and from system RAM the graphics processor suddenly becomes a very wide processor for general purpose floating point operations."

"With the capability to fetch from anywhere in memory, perform arbitrary ALU operations and write the results back to memory, in conjunction with the raw floating point performance of the large shader ALU array, the MEMEXPORT facility does have the capability to achieve a wide range of fairly complex and general purpose operations; basically any operation that can be mapped to a wide SIMD array can be fairly efficiently achieved and in comparison to previous graphics pipelines it is achieved in fewer cycles and with lower latencies."



"For instance, this is probably the first time that general purpose physics calculation would be achievable, with a reasonable degree of success, on a graphics processor and is a big step towards the graphics processor becoming much more like a vector co-processor to the CPU."

"The combination of the shader array and tessellation unit can now make the, oft spoken of but rarely seen, capability of displacement mapping an attainable method to use as this truly becomes a single pass algorithm for Xenos."

That same tesselation unit is something else dx 10 has and developers have YET to even start using ;)



So again "the memexport facility does have the capability to achieve a wide range of fairly complex general purpose operations" Say hello to tons of dx 10 functionality. So xenos is not a PROPER dx 10 part, but it meets some of the requirements and has something not even dx10 has "memexport" to enable dx 10 class functionality.

Good news is dx 10 features can be used, but they still can't properly call it dx10 get the picture? Trust me when I say we haven't yet begun to see what the 360 can do. Since no current pc parts have unified shaders nor memexport one has to understand with pc/360 ports the 360 is being held back ;)

For "full" DX10 on a PC you need card that have ALL the functions requided by DX10 [not like in DX9 where were flags and some cards can do some effect and some cant and both are DX9 like 7800/7900/5600/6800/etc Nvidai cards that cant do HDR+AA but are DX9]

There are HUNDREDS of functions and they have REQUIDED level of PRECISION ex 32bit, float , no 16bit etc.

You don't have ONE or you have LOWER presision and .... your GPU is NOT a DX10.

So even if Xenos is one function short it STILL have 99% similiarity - and changing one or two functions or lowering precision is NO PROBLEM for coders especialy as X360 have its OWN VERSION of DX!

On the other hand RSX is only DX9 [and due to DX LOOSE req] not even ALL FUNCTIONS are present!

Ex HDR+AA require 32bit backbuffer [or something] and RSX CANT do THIS!

Nearly no new functions of DX10 are present in RSX!

do jap devs even use directx on there games? that arent on pc?

You are correct its Microsoft's new requirements. No cap bits meaning you don't meet SOME of the requirements then classify your hardware as full directx 10 like they use to do with directx 9.

There are no directx 10 functions in the rsx. The 360 also has 32 bit texture filtering which dx 10 isn't suppose to have. The advantage the 360 gpu has is its versatility they'll be able to do many creative things with the gpu once they get a handle on the technology. Expect there to be many developers making 360 exclusives looking to exploit these capabilities in the future.

A big part of them not using directx as much was due to the fact that the ps2 was the standard, but this is not to say japanese developers don't recognize how amazing directx is. Its just the ps2 was the standard and so they stuck with what it was using.

While the ps3 will clearly beat out the 360 in japan expect many more developers to be getting into the habit of using directx as even this early in the console's life its already obvious that there is more jap support for the 360 than the original xbox got.

yea there mos def getting jap support.... that new LP trailer is nice

i can gon on the say that lost planet will shit all over gears in every aspect.. i cant stress that enough

Well.. still a bit too premature to say that, but I guess we'll see when the time comes.

hahahaha opta like u dont make premature comments on a daily basis

Reply to a (20),

No, it is very unprofessional of you to call people on this website a liar, please do not do it in the future. Also, I think it is amazing the way that people say that it is simply a Famitsu magazine "mistranslation" when the magazine exposes something that ends up being in favor of an American made product that could potentially harm the sales of a Japanese product competing against it. If the people in Japan would simply cut out the, "We don't buy American automobiles, electronics, or appliances" nonsense, they would actually be able to help their economy and get out of the recession they are in.

Also, the reason why the Nintendo DS Lite an other handhelds have done so well in Japan, is simply because of the much lower costs of handhelds and the games played on them. The Wii may be a big success in Japan, but you can bet that the Playstation 3 will not.

--------------------------

There have been a lot of nice posts about the differences between the PC version of DirectX 9, the Xbox 360 version of DirectX, and the Windows Vista version of DirectX 10. The bottom line is that although the Xbox 360 version will never be able to technically be called DirectX 10, since it is not 100% the same, they are still virtually identical due to the fact that the Xbox 360 and Windows Vista are both based around Unified Shader technology.

Some of the people on this website even pointed out the facts that the Xbox 360 has some advantages over DirectX 10, simply because the Xbox 360 version of DirectX 9 is customized to the Xbox 360 hardware. We will not TRULY see what the Xbox 360 is capable of for a while. Once developers optimize Unified Shader technology, the games will continue to get more and more amazing!!!

When Windows Vista is released, it will be an even bigger advantage for the Xbox 360, because Windows Vista and Xbox 360 are the only two formats that use Unified Shader technology. As of right now, the Xbox 360 has a HUGE advantage over the Playstation 3 in terms of how inexpensive and easy it is to port a PC game. But, this advantage will actually grown as Windows Vista becomes the standard for PC gaming.

When Windows Vista is the standard, it will be virtually impossible to port Unified Shader PC games to the non-Unified Playstation 3 because of the high cost and hardware incompatability. The Xbox 360 will still be an easy and inexpensive port, because both the Xbox 360 and Windows Vista are based on Unified Shader technology that speak virtually identical program languages, regardless of what their official name is.

???????,It is not "Famitsu". The original is an article on ttp://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20060419/ffxi.htm of GAME Watch(ttp://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/). If you translate voluntarily, it is sure to be understood that the English article that you saw is a mistranslation. Please do not cheat.

。



Original

編：　たとえば「Ever Quest」では数年ごとにグラフィックスエンジンをそっくり入れ替えて寿命を伸ばしてきました。そういった選択肢もあり得るんでしょうか?



田中氏：　物理的には可能でしょう。ただ、「Ever Quest」みたいに全部0から次のエンジンに向けてすべてを作り直すというようなものは、「ファイナルファンタジーXI」位のスペックのものになってきちゃうと大変は大変なんですよね。



今回のXbox 360版もいわゆるWindows版からの移植レベルで、Xbox 360専用にすべてを作り直したわけではないですから。



1から全部やろうとすれば多分2～3年はかかってしまうので、その労力があったらもっと最初から次世代機をターゲットにした新しいものを作っていった方が得策なのかなと。ユーザーにもそっちの方がメリットは大きいのかなと思ったりするわけです。

GC 2006: Soccer Not So Exclusive?
ttp://ps3.ign.com/articles/728/728561p1.html
If you are man who is wiser than Microsoft, let's admit a mistake.

Written by mike_mgoblue on 2006/08/25